August 12, 2003
Does anyone own a Segway?
Okay. I've got a bottle of Oban scotch sitting here on my desk. It's very nice stuff -- not too peaty, but with enough bite to make it tasty. It's a reasonably expensive scotch, probably about $50 a bottle. I love Oban, would prefer to drink this bottle myself.
But you know what? I'll gladly give to anyone can prove, with documented evidence, that anyone on the planet has ever actually bought a Segway. One. Single. Segway. Has anyone in the known or unknown universe bought one of these supremely useless, blisteringly overhyped, rideable vacuum cleaners? I mean, I keep on seeing news stories about it. Alaska cops have bought a bunch of Segways to use on patrol; Buy.com announces a winner in its Segway giveaway contest; a few students at LA Tech are using them to pick up chicks. But you know what? They all have the distinct whiff of stories planted by the inventor, Dean Kamen, in a desperate attempt to pretend this quintessence of lameosity is actually selling.
And hell, he ought to be desperate. The guy built a factory in Bedford, N.H., that's capable of cranking out 40,000 Segways per month -- and yet which right now is probably alive with the sound of crickets.
It's a fascinating paean to what can be wrought by the whiplash interia of hype. Remember the hype around the Segway? How Jeff Bezos sank millions of his own investment cash into it? How venture capitlalist John Doerr salivated at the sight of the gyroscopic wonder, and said it would be "as big as the Internet, as far as making a difference"? How author Steve Kemper got a quarter-million-dollar book advance to describe Kamen's brilliant work on the Segway?
So anyway. That bottle of Oban is sitting here. And I will give it to the first person to prove -- I mean prove, with, like, pieces of paper and shit -- that anyone has actually used their own hard-earned cash to buy one single Segway.
And hey! While I'm in such a weirdly nasty mood, let's revisit a column I wrote two and a half years ago about the Segway, back when I was doing a weekly gig for Newsday. I love a good "told you so" moment:
It's a new Internet! A new gold rush! It's "Ginger"!
by Clive Thompson
You have to pity high-tech boosters these days. Their fondest dreams have gone bust. E-commerce tanked; the "wireless web" is a non-starter; and according to some recent reports, some long-time Internet users are actually abandoning the Web. Swell. Andrew Wyeth could scarcely have sketched a bleaker picture of modern life.
So I spent the first few weeks of 2001 calling around various high-tech analysts and dot-com braniacs, the folks who own Etoys.com stock that's now worth 53 cents. They craved a new dream. They needed to find religion again. "We need a new revolution," said one, morosely. "There's gotta be something out there!"
Presto.
(NOTE: in addition to reading the full text of this entry, check out the commments area at the end! A couple of Segway owners have already written in. Woo!)
A few days later, some hot news broke! Really hot! A story on Inside.com reported on an upcoming book -- about a top-secret new invention by Dean Kamen. Kamen has plenty of high-tech street cred -- he created the first portable dialysis pump, and a gyroscopic wheelchair that can climb stairs. But now, the story said, he's working on a much bigger new thing -- an invention code-named "Ginger."
But the details were shrouded in mystery! The book proposal wouldn't say precisely what Ginger is. Still, all the important people had seen it, and were raving about it! Apple CEO Steve Jobs was quoted as saying that Ginger's impact would be so huge, people would "architect cities around it." Amazon.com CEO Jeff Bezos said Ginger was "revolutionary". And Silicon Valley venture capitalist John Doerr said it was destined to be bigger than the World Wide Web.
Hot damn! Instantly, the high-tech punditocracy was in a mad lather, with stories about Ginger appearing everywhere. The dream was alive! Ginger would be a new silicon gold-rush! Ginger would be bigger than the Net! Techies and investors flocked to the phones and online discussion boards, puzzling over the really important questions, such as: What could Ginger be? How does it work? And more importantly -- HOW CAN IT MAKE ME BUCKETS OF CASH?
So it was with some surprise when, a few days later, a few journalists announced they'd figured out what Ginger probably was. They'd checked patents filed by Kamen, and concluded that Ginger was ... a motorized scooter. Maybe a one-wheeled scooter, but still -- a scooter. "I have a feeling that someone is out there having a big laugh over this," mused futurist Paul Saffo.
Granted, it's possible that Ginger is still quite innovative. It may be propelled by a Stirling engine, an age-old device which consumes little power and produces miniscule emissions, but which no-one has ever figured out how to mass produce cheaply. Stirling engines are cool, but still -- you could pretty much hear the air hissing out of the balloon. Even Kamen came out of hiding to protest to Inside.com: "We have a promising project, but nothing of the earth-shattering nature that people are conjuring up."
Ah.
So everyone calmed down. They got their heart rates back below 100. And they eventually went back to sleep.
Because as everyone knows in high-tech -- if you aren't asleep, you can't dream.
Posted by Clive Thompson at August 12, 2003 12:57 AM
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I've been pondering this same question for quite some time now. Did anyone actually buy one of those damned things?
I do remember meeting a couple who actually owned a Sinclair C5. All they ever did with it was drive around a car park a couple of times, to the best of my knowledge.
Has anyone bought Segways as props for kitsch sci-fi B-movies yet? It could be the place to look...
What would be the point? You would see everyone in this fictional futuristic society riding around on these stupid things and your ability to suspend your disbelief would get up and walk out of the theatre before you could.
You know what these things remind me of? In an old Mad Magazine article (probably from the 50s or 60s), they show what life will be like when the car culture takes over. Everyone has their own little personal car, and houses remove stairs and replace them with ramps. That's what the segue is: a little personal car for people too lazy to walk or ride a bike.
Riding one in a SUBWAY? What the *hell*?
I just so do not get this idea. It's too fast to use on sidewalks, too slow to use on roads. If you're going a few miles, it's not fast enough to be appreciably better than mass transit. And you have to stand up, which rules out many of the elderly.
Under what possible circumstances would the Segway be better than walking, biking, taking mass transit, or driving?
As for that Sinclair thingie -- now, damn, that is the vehicle of the future, if you ask me! Wicked cool.
gosh, i hate to deny ya a "I love a good told you so moment"....but--
i'll take the bottle of oban. i'd prefer a macallan 25 year, but hey- you're buying.
there are about 10,000 segway hts sold so far (most likely more by now). they've only been shipping since march.
if you check out www.segwaychat.com you can see where hundreds of segway owners participate. does each one of them get a bottle as well?
what do you want to see? a credit card statement? photos? it's all yours. you can see my segway journal here. http://www.bookofseg.com/100days/ i've had mine for 9 months, replaced a car and have gone over 1,200 miles. the ht replaced my car, not walking. i bike to the office on weekends when i don't need to dress up.
email me so i can collect the booty :-]
cheers,
pt
Hey PT! Sure, if you can provide me with a paper copy of a receipt showing you actually paid cold, hard cash for a Segway, the bottle's yours! Blot out the credit-card number if you want. Send me a copy of it to post on this site, and I'll send you the bottle! (You can email me your shipping address to clive-at-clivethompson.net.)
Also: Dude, where the hell do you ride that thing, anyway? Under what circumstances is it a useful mode of transportation?
Oh, by the way, you can mail the paper copy of the receipt to Clive Thompson, 69 W. 9th St., New York, NY, 10011.
How many bottles 'ya got? I'm personally acquainted with about 300+ owners (I'm also an owner myself).. offer still good?
I got one bottle! First person who mails me hard, paper proof that they used their own cash to buy a Segway, the bottle is theirs!
I reserve the right to put up a copy of the paper proof on this blog, but other than that, there's no terms and conditions to the contest. Obviously, I'd prefer the Segay purchase be for personal reasons -- if they had to buy it for work or for research purposes, it doesn't really count. I'm interested only in people who laid down their own coin for one of these things, just because they wanted to.
Actually, I'd be interested in knowing how and where you use it too.
Some sample questions:
1. Where do you ride it? On a bike path, the sidewalk, the edge of the road, etc.?
2. How close to your work do you live?
3. Besides not arriving sweaty to work, how else has this replaced your car, and not your bike?
My objection to all the hype surrounding the Segue is that, from all the evidence I can see, it is just a really cool, electric bike. Tell me: am I wrong?
I'd like to take you up on the bottle of Oban also.
Reference: http://bythelake.com/seg/bob-on-seg1as.jpg
My friend pointed out I have been spelling "Segway" wrong in my comments. If only there was a Kwik, E-Z way to correct my marketing mis-spellings in these posts.
clive-
i can go online and print the credit card transaction from 11/02, will that do? i suppose that will need to as it's the only thing possible.
to answer you question "Dude, where the hell do you ride that thing, anyway? Under what circumstances is it a useful mode of transportation?"
i ride it on the streets and sidewalks from my home to my office. same place i ride my bike or used to drive my car (roads for the car that is).
i would say it's useful if you have travel needs similair to mine:
-live and work in the same city (less than 15 miles from the office).
-don't / can't ride a bike to the office. as i said, i do ride my bicycle when i can dress down, like the weekends. we don't have a shower at the office. i ride my bike for fun and exercise, but it's not viable for commuting for me, like many people.
-don't want to drive a car any longer. it took me longer to drive a car than to use my segway ht. traffic is awful around here. then there's parking. sitting on your ass in traffic sucks.
-want to save money, since i got rid of my car i've saved over $600 per month (payment, insurance and parking). in about 9 months the ht paid for itself. the ht costs less than a couple bucks per year to charge.
you can also check out my site. the ht isn't for everyone, just like public transit and bicycle aren't for everyone, but for the folks who have travel needs that fit, it's a great technology.
mmmmmm, oban :-]
cheers,
pt
I know, Oban is superb! Probably my top-favorite scotch.
Sure, a print-up of a credit-card bill would work, so long as it clearly indicates that the thing purchased was a Segway. If you can get a paper copy of it to me, and if you're the first one to hit my snail-mailbox, you'll be kicking back with some liquid gold.
>>Some sample questions:
1. Where do you ride it? On a bike path, the sidewalk, the edge of the road, etc.?
all of the above. each state has different laws, in my case i take the roads most of the time, like i do on my bicycle when i ride. some areas sidewalks. seattle allows bicycles on sidewalks too.
>>2. How close to your work do you live?
as i said in my other post, less than 15 miles (approx 10). the range of the ht is around 15 miles, more or less depending on a lot of factors.
>>3. Besides not arriving sweaty to work, how else has this replaced your car, and not your bike?
well, i run all my errands on the ht. groceries, post office, all that stuff.
i still ride my bike and use it for trips too, but the ht is use for 99% of my trips.
my wife still has a car, and when needed, i'll use that.
i think folks try to imagine the ht doing "everything". nothing is a 100% perfect solution, but by using multi-modes i can do everything, without a car.
>>My objection to all the hype surrounding the Segue is that, from all the evidence I can see, it is just a really cool, electric bike. Tell me: am I wrong?
don't hate the player, hate the game. the media likes to hype everything. segway has never placed an ad or done anything like that.
the ht isn't like any other form of transport, it's pretty amazing, if you can- try one. i have an electric bike that i rarely use, it's not even close to a segway ht.
cheers,
pt
I ride mine daily - except in electrical storms - I'm a wuss. I use my Segway to go to work. Weekends, it's the library, the bank, the pharmacy and the store (if I only have a few items). In front of my house, I ride it on the road; on the way to campus (I work at a college) I ride it on the sidewalk (no one else on the sidewalk, usually, but if there is, I can ride the HT at walking speed with no trouble... I can balance at '0' mph, and wait for them to pass); on campus, I ride it on roads or in parking lots - oh, and into my building, up the elevator, and into my office (all approved).
Meahwhile, I use more of my own energy than if I were to drive my car; I actually get out in the open air; I get a chance to interact with my neighbors, and pollute the neighborhood less.
Am I glad I got one? You betcha! I can't walk the distance, due to medical issues, but I can ride my HT. I wouldn't ride a bike, because I can't show up at work sweaty and disheveled (and the same medical issues). I'm toying with purchasing a 'p' model, slightly smaller, slighly less range, - but since I live alone, and have some surgery coming up, I just can't talk myself into it, yet.
Everything has it's place, Marc. There are places and people for bikes, trikes, skates, skateboards, and Segways. Not one of them detracts from the others. You should try one, I think you'll like it.
>>I reserve the right to put up a copy of the paper proof on this blog, but other than that, there's no terms and conditions to the contest.
okay...i'd like to block out my personal info, etc...
>>Obviously, I'd prefer the Segay purchase be for personal reasons -- if they had to buy it for work or for research purposes, it doesn't really count. I'm interested only in people who laid down their own coin for one of these things, just because they wanted to.
my purchase, along with the hundreds and hundreds of other segway owners i know are all personal. a lot of biz and gov purchased segways, that's true. but i'm 100% personal with my own coin. i had planned to sell it if i couldn't use it, but it really worked out great.
more so now if people are going to give me free scotch :-]
cheers,
pt
I bought one too but I don't drink so thanks anyway :-)
Aloha,
Sam
Interesting -- I can understand a bit of how the Segway would integrate into your folks' situations. And I'm hugely in favor of getting rid of cars whenever possible! That's one of the reasons I pay a premium rent to remain living in a major city; I can't tolerate the idea of wasting even an instant of my life in traffic. Also, quite interesting to hear that it's useful for health reasons!
Still, what's the safety level like? One of the reasons I found the hype over the Segway so obnoxious is that it seemed so politically naive -- and so blatantly constructed for the purposes of harnessing environmental issues to make venture capitalists a boatload of money. John Doerr's claim that this would "change the way cities were designed" struck me as hallucinogenic. People have tried for years to change urban design away from being car-centric, but there are a myriad of political forces opposing that -- not the least of which is a massive car industry willing to spend money to discredit public transit, and discourage its use. At any rate, as a long-time bike rider, I was always struck by the fact that many urban environments (and almost all suburban ones) were designed to make bike-riding extremely dangerous. I'd imagined that a Segway would be even more so.
clive, btw- would you consider a new blog entry, with a recap of all this?
i mean, within minutes of your post there are at least 3-4 segway owners thirsty for oban.
seems fair :-]
cheers,
pt
(Oh, by all means, block out your personal information on the bill you mail in to me! No problem at all.)
Good idea! I'll update the posting now to point people to your guys' messages here.
I also plan to write a whole new posting when I get the first paper copy of a receipt! I'm excited!
>>Still, what's the safety level like?
it's been avail to some people for over 9 months. have you heard about any segway accidents? nope. you know the media would pounce on that too. to me, it's not different than a bicycle. segway requires you to take a class with -each- segway ht sold, a lot of people say and have showned the ht is safer than a lot of other ways of getting around. in 1,200 miles i've never fell, slipped or anything.
>>One of the reasons I found the hype over the Segway so obnoxious is that it seemed so politically naive -- and so blatantly constructed for the purposes of harnessing environmental issues to make venture capitalists a boatload of money.
do you think they're making a boatload of money yet? i don't. were you at those meetings? have you met dean kamen? there's a lot we do not know.
>>John Doerr's claim that this would "change the way cities were designed" struck me as hallucinogenic.
actually, some cities are planning bike / segway lanes already as well as charging stations for e-vehicles.
>>People have tried for years to change urban design away from being car-centric, but there are a myriad of political forces opposing that -- not the least of which is a massive car industry willing to spend money to discredit public transit, and discourage its use.
okay, so do we try and fight that? or ENCOURAGE other things? i choose to fight for choices.
>>At any rate, as a long-time bike rider, I was always struck by the fact that many urban environments (and almost all suburban ones) were designed to make bike-riding extremely dangerous. I'd imagined that a Segway would be even more so.
i live in seattle, it's a segway owner and bicycle owner's dream, it's great out there.
cheers,
pt
Oh, I actually do think Dean Kamen had deeply socially altruistic reasons for launching the Segway. From what I can tell, he really did want to improve the environment and make living environments more livable! And he hardly needs to invent for money now; he's already had a number of fantastic successes that have given him independence. He strikes me as the most laudable type of inventor around. No, my objection is to the insane hype machine created by his investors, who -- and I'm making an assumption here based not on personal knowledge of them, but on many years of doing business reporting -- would not be particularly socially altruistic at all.
As for creating alternatives? I'm all in favor of it! But ridiculous hype can actually harm things. Among other things, an assumption that there is a technological solution to a problem that is structural -- both politically and socially -- is not just a canard, it's a dangerous one, because it leads people to believe the political fights aren't important; "technology will win." No it won't, not on its own. If John Doerr and Jeff Bezos really want to fight for livable, environmental urban/suburban environments, why not kick some of their coin into fighting the enormous, billion-dollar auto lobby? Because that would make them a bunch of enemies, and if there's one thing people trying to make buckets of cash tend to be extremely cowardly about, it's making enemies.
To sum: I have no problem with offering technological solutions to social problems. But I have big problems in people who paint this as the sufficient -- or even necessary -- precondition of political success. When they're doing it to make money, it's even tawdrier.
Oh, and as to there being no reported accidents on a Segway? As I recall, in addition to a well-publicized faceplant that George Bush took off one of them a while back, the denizens of people who've gone toppling from Segways includes an Atlanta police office and, weirdly enough, Gina Ghershon. (I blogged about this a while back.) Again, I'm not saying that they're not highly stable -- I actually think they are. The technology behind them is superb. But, John Doerr's predictions to the contrary, our roads won't be re-engineered around them, and that means that cars will have almost no idea how to behave around Segways. One of the reasons we've probably seen few stories about car/Segway collisions is so few people have actually bought the things. If they ever actually take off there are tens of millions of them on the road, we'll see accident statistics that are probably comparable to bike/car accidents, or worse.
Trust me, I don't hate the Segway; I am a skeptical about its usefullness, but if we want to play that game, pretty much the only technology humans really NEED is fire and a few sharp rocks.
Like Clive, I think the media hype was a little overblown. OK, a LOT overblown.
I would love the chance to motor around on one of these and give it a spin, but until I do, I'll stick with my bike.
Thanks for the helpful and informative replies to my questions!
Okay, I'd just like to say that I'm currently in the apartment where Clive is blogging, and a moment ago -- even while writing one of his anti-venture-capitalist rants! -- he openly admitted that you people were making him crave a Segway. Nice work, Segway proselytizers!
as far as john doeer goes, go after him, or the other people quoted or the hype-mongers as opposed to the segway or the owners- we all have the same goals, less cars, technology, etc...we're better together. ever see a segway ad? nope. they don't advertise, at all in any way.
george bush didn't faceplant, he didn't turn it on and needed to step off, he never fell- he didn't look graceful though, that's for sure. turning it on is a requirement :-] ...and one cop in atlanta fell over, once. but what you don't hear about are the thousands of owners getting hurt at all. as far as safety goes, with thousands and thousands of people using the segway ht each day around millions of people (disney has a fleet of over 300). i think it's pretty reasonable to say the ht is pretty safe. the ht is primarily used on sidewalks, that's why you won't (and perhaps never) hear many car-segway accidents. a lot of people do not want to ride bicycles since they need to be in the street, the segway -is- a great choice.
that said, there are a lot of independent studies coming out too, along with very detailed studies from the cities using them but critics will never admit they were wrong and it's just a revolving door.
cheers,
pt
It's true, all this discussion is making me want my own Segway now!!
hey-
if any of you are ever in seattle, wa let me know. i'll glady let you take the ht for a spin.
or if you'd like you can check out www.segwaychat.com and email someone who has one in your area or post in the forum and i'm sure they gladly give you a try.
i love my bicycle too, it's just not viable for commuting for 99% of my trips.
it's all good :-]
cheers,
pt
Clive, I am a living breathing person in NYC and I own a segway bought with cash from Amazon. I have a receipt from Segway LLC. of purchase and pick up the bottle. I will even give you a personal demo at no charge. LARRY KAIDEN or Steve Kaiden 212-679-4455
Hey Larry! If you want to win the contest, just be the first to drop off the paper receipt proof at my place! The first one to get it in wins the bottle!
And hey: If you can arrange to actually ride by on your Segway to drop the receipt off, I'll get a digital photo of you to put on the blog! Email me at clive@clivethompson.net to let me know arrival details!
Of course, if PT -- or anyone else -- gets their receipt in first, the bottle goes to them. It's a Darwinian struggle here!
tellya what-
i'd love for larry to have it- he's there and you get a demo so it's all cool with me.
larry go for it.
i wouldn't call this a darwinian struggle, i think it's cool how kind segway owners are, larry for offering to give you a demo and me for giving up the oban :-]
cheers,
pt
Even better! And yes, by all means, I'd love love love to see a Segway up close, Larry.
sounds great, good luck and hope your "weirdly nasty mood" passes.
it's been fun, my hope is you'd reconsider posting things without checking out the facts a bit next time or maybe directing the arrows at the vc people or something. a bottle of oban is cheap to lose, next time you might lose something far more expensive...integrity :-]
cheers,
pt
sounds great, good luck and hope your "weirdly nasty mood" passes.
it's been fun, my hope is you'd reconsider posting things without checking out the facts a bit next time or maybe directing the arrows at the vc people or something. a bottle of oban is cheap to lose, next time you might lose something far more expensive...integrity :-]
cheers,
pt
Hey Clive;
I have also bought a Segway. I don't drink so what else do you have to offer?
I'm down in the Bronx, NY, City Island area, come on down for a ride anytime and we can also have some clams on the half shell. My treat!!!
Later;
HS
Well Clive, while I'd love to go with your bottle of scotch, I think I'll take a case of Jolt instead. I've got plenty of photos to prove ownership...and if you want to stick to your word, I'll try to get some photos to claim my case-o-Jolt (cheaper than a bottle of scotch i'd say).
I'm 16, been a proud segger since March when mine arrived after waiting since an hour and a half after launch back in November for my order to arrive! I use mine to commute to and from school, and now during the summer I use it to get around the neighborhood to friends' houses, recreationally to relieve stress (it's really quite fun, just as much as functional), and just as an alternative to a car.
While wavelengths isn't up yet (we're renovating a bit, both IRL and virtually), I usually have a little piece on myself and my seg, and would be happy to field any questions you might have. Feel free to call me at 305.669.9016, or drop me an email at Jordan.Preve@wavelengthsjournal.com or jpreve@bellsouth.net.
Best regards,
Jordan Prevé
Clive, I have the bill of sale from amazon showing full payment. I can bring a copy to you in a few minutes. what is your phone #. ? I have your address. apt #.. I can taste the Oban( one of my favorites!)
I also have my completed bill of sale from Segway and proof of ownership insurance...what are you waiting for ? I am ready to come over now. Call me on the cell phone I just e-mailed to you...Larry Kay
Clive, give me your fax and I will have the paid bill in your hands in minutes...standing by.e-mail the #...
Thanks for the call back. Steve K
I use mine to commute to and from work, and to do light-weight shopping for me and my dog (i.e., a bag of groceries that fit in a backpack).
It's usefulness is similar in many ways to an electric bike. But it's a hell of a lot easier to use, much more manueverable especially in crowded environments, and generally much safer to use.
Hey, sounds like we've made a new friend. I hope you enjoy your ride on the Segway!
I love mine!
Take care!
-Bruce
Clive, I will call you Wednesday to set up a meet as I would like you to demo the Segway.. You will like it so much that you may see why we spent the big dollars..
I use my Segway 8 to 10 miles per day in Phoenix, the 5th largest city in the US. It's faster than driving the 2.5 miles to work, only for the fact that I ride it straight into my office building and to my desk rather than parking and walking from a parking garage.
It's a much cheaper option than driving - and much faster than public transit. Plus, I'm on the sidewalks, enjoying the weather (even when it's hot here it's not too bad).
Compare this to the cost of a car - factor in your down payment, payment, insurance, gas, registration, parking, car washes, maintenance, etc., and a car is realllllly expensive. My past two cars were costing me around $700/mo considering these two factors. Even with putting a Segway on a low interest credit card, it's costing me about $90/mo if I want to pay it off slowly over 6 years. Again, compare that to a transit pass - not much more, but faster than a bus or subway. Compare that to a car, and it's a LOT less.... a LOT! If I want to take trips I can borrow a car or just rent one.
I've taken the Segway in office buildings, ballparks, museums, libraries, shops, malls, theaters, restaurants, hospitals, etc.... with not a single problem.
Be serious, compare costs of transit and it's not a bad deal. Sure a bike or blades are cheaper, but not by much for a nike bike which can cost $3K, or custom blades which can be $1200. And I'm not getting sweaty and I can bring it inside anywhere, anytime.
Ben
But surely, if you're talking about cost-effectiveness for transportation, you really shouldn't be holding up extravagant examples like the 3k Nike bike, or custom-made blades. Maybe a 40 dollar mountain bike from the thrift store, or a hundred-dollar skateboard?
Can I say While I dont feel the same as you in regards to The segway, I infact would like to see more people on it mostly civil servants that need to get about town, I am enjoying the various spellings that you are coming up with. May I suggest the seggay or the so-gay or sade ( after the singer, of course) I look forward to more mispronounciations
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