Stumbling is an excellent term, but so is 'marketing software', which is what this useful toolbar seems to really be.

I 'stumbled upon' their site earlier today and was very intrigued. Then I was suspicious.

Users let a bit of software track their movements on the net and then allow it to record their opinions about the site for other surfers, or stumblers. I doubt it. I bet a pile of FOAFs that data is going straight to a marketing company. It sounds like a ramped-up version of the google toolbar to me. At least google is up front about telling you why they're recording your web travels.

I'm with Xeni. I'll stick to my google toolbar and stumble past this new marketing device.

Less about networking and more about stumbling is another search engine banana slug
Increasingly I sense that what I'm blindly searching for, or stumbling towards, is hiding in the back roads of google.

A note from the implementor:

Unlike Google Toolbar or Alexa Toolbar, StumbleUpon *does not* track all the websites you visit. It only records the sites you explicitly rate "Not-for-me" or "I-like-it".

Nor does stumble require the disclosure of any personal information. And for the IP-address-paranoid-chinese-dissidents out there, you can even stumble and rate sites through an anonymous proxy.

A note to the implementor:

I wasn't worried about personal information being harvested. Fictional names and ages can be made up on the spot. What I was concerned about is your product (and others like it) ostensibly providing surfers a service and nothing more. A quick look at StumbleUpon's Privacy Policy (http://www.stumbleupon.com/privacy.html) reveals the real driving force behind this "service":

"StumbleUpon may share aggregate information about its userbase with advertisers, business partners, sponsors, and other third parties . . ."

That's what I meant when I bet my pile of FOAFs that StumbleUpon was passing info to marketing companies.

All I'm saying is that these new web tools shouldn't portray themselves as benign services. If there is nothing wrong with gathering marketing information and "sharing" it with private interests don't tuck it away half way through the privacy policy. Put on the front of the website.
Right beside the "Featured Stumbler" profile, there could be another profile: "Featured Private Company we Shared This Stumbler's Habits With"

"IP-address-paranoid-chinese-dissidents"

I suggest you go back to business school and take PR 101 because racist, right-wing comments aren't an effective way to speak to responses to your product. I seriously hope you're shitting yourself right now, man. Not that Chinese people use the internet y'all. He sounds as sleazy as his product. You can take the fratboy out of the frathouse but you can't...

Paul: I think you may have misinterpreted my statement. I am most definitely not racist nor am I right wing. I simply meant that those who are behind the "great firewall of china" (ie: chinese internet censorship) can use anonymous proxies to cover their tracks. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

Liam: I'm not sure what you would have me say on the main page. StumbleUpon currently does not sell any information to anyone. In the future, we may sell aggregate information to websites such as "Women like your site more than men." But we will never sell the information "Alice likes your site and she lives at X address." That would be a violation of our privacy policy. Maybe there is an ethical dilemma here that I am missing?

I see both sides on this debate.

On one hand, there's a desire from consumers for the purveyors of products and services to be transparent not only about what their product does but also what the true cost is. This is not unique to online. Who doesn't cringe when, say, Radio Shack asks for your full address or even a postal code when you make a purchase? But this is more an issue online because the cost of a transaction is less likely to be cash (impersonal), more likely to be personal information.

On the other hand, it's ridiculous for the consumer to assume that there is NO cost even to a free web service. (The internet isn't a frickin' commune.)

Just make sure the cost to me is clear and you're not toying with me by putting it in some fine print.

OK, let's get the issues in focus. From what I've read above the problem is not with the exchange of "personal" information, which can be made up. The problem is with tracking and grouping an individuals patterns and habits (socially or otherwise).

I have the same problem with the software Amazon uses to tell me what I might like given my surfing habits (fuck you Amazon!). The things (and people) I'm drawn to are the product of inspiration and special correspondences. I don't need anybody "helping" or guilding such choices. I'm with Xeni 100 percent ... you've got to be a pretty pathetic person if you need such services.

The other problem that is being addressed is the issue of being UPFRONT about what you're doing. Burying the truth in your privacy policy and then saying something different about it is emblematic of why people won't (and shouldn't) trust companies that offer "services" like yours.

I don't think anybody here is against technology making a better future... there are a lot of good things that could be done with this stuff - selling our surfing habits to companies isn't among them.

But hey, a bad review from Xeni Jardin is the kiss of death for a new company so maybe you need to rethink your ethics, listen to what people have said here and leave your fratboy humour at home (I still think your comment about Chinese dissidents was really fucked. An apology is a step in the right direction though ...).

I feel I need to make a few clarifications:

- Xeni's poor review was actually for the new friendster-like search engine Eurekster, not StumbleUpon. Stumble has been around for over 2 years now and is most definitely not a friendster clone. In fact, BoingBoing's other contributor Cory Doctorow recently made a positive review about a new stumbleupon-like service coded by some of his friends.

- I really don't find anything funny about Chinese Internet censorship, and did not mean to imply that in any way. If I were raised in China I would be an internet dissident, too. And justifiably paranoid about revealing my IP address considering the government that has a history of publically executing its dissidents. Note that the Chinese government has blocked their own citizens from using many websites including Google, so an anonymous proxy really is essential.

- I've never been in a fraternity. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever known anyone in an fraternity. They aren't as popular up here in the frozen north.

- I can see where you are coming from with regards to selling aggregate information. I think quite a number of people have an initial negative gut reaction to their behavioural data being sold as a commodity. But I think you will find StumbleUpon is completely ethical about what we do with behavioural data, and much more up front about it than other companies. For example, Google contains exactly the same clause in their privacy policy about selling aggregate information, yet they bury their privacy policy 3 levels deep into their website. We link our privacy policy from every page and we reference it from our FAQ.

Beyond that, we also air new ideas in our public forums. So in the future if there are ever any stumblers who are uncomfortable with what we are doing with their data, we can discuss and address their concerns.

Whoa, sorry for not posting here sooner! For some reason Movable Type wasn't notifying me of comments being posted here.

For what it's worth, I think Casey's got it right here; the issue seems to be people's desire for transparency, and a business' desire to have potential ways to make money. Unless you wanna build applications and give them away for free (which is certainly a time-honored way of doing things, but almost impossible in the case of bandwidth-reliant application like StumbleUpon), you have to get some bling happening somehow, and in the online world, that tends to be selling aggregate data, selling advertising, or selling subscriptions. Subscriptions would doom an entreprise like StumbleUpon, I'd wager, and advertising isn't really possible with their model either.
Truth be told, StumbleUpon doesn't sound particularly dangerous at all ... just another kewl online app, with the usual bouquet of strategies for trying to survive!

Glad you posted in here, Geoff.

I can't see how StumbleUpon can be any worse than the carnage to my computer after I installed the latest Kazaa release. Even after I uninstalled Kazaa, I had a devil of a time getting all the Adware off my computer. I still have one tick-like ad application that even Norton can't burn off the flesh of my system.

I will never accept that kind of buggering for "freeware" ever again.

I stumble and really love it. It feels like the pre-Microsoft / enterprise internet to me, like when the modem connect tone still raised a heartbeat or two. An addictive internet, where every page seemed to count and strike home.

There are some cool people at SU too, it *feels* like pioneering community, and in a way, it is. I havn't come across this feeling for quite a few years.

Don't knock it without trying it.
8-}

I stumble and really love it. It feels like the pre-Microsoft / enterprise internet to me, like when the modem connect tone still raised a heartbeat or two. An addictive internet, where every page seemed to count and strike home.

There are some cool people at SU too, it *feels* like pioneering community, and in a way, it is. I havn't come across this feeling for quite a few years.

Don't knock it without trying it.
8-}

I have been using StumbleUpon since March 23rd and I would like to state the following:

1. I chose different things I am interested in and only see those websites.
2. I have not received any additional Spam.
3. This company seems to get it's income from donations (I donated personally).
4. Try it, no additional software is installed; unlike other freeware. Kazaa is not even in the same category of software, Casey.
5. Popup Blocking is an option on the StumbleUpon toolbar.
6. I'm a End-User Support Technician and would recommend this software to anyone.

I forgot to metion I found this page by using StumbleUpon.

Funny, I stumbled on it in SU as well.
But I gave it a thumbs down, for the mere fact that most creators of a tool like such wouldn't comment on a page that attaacks and mis leads people of their product, but Geoff did.

But instead of *reading* what he wrote, key phrases we picked out and used as a point to get off track...

SU is one of the most valuable programs on my computer. Not only do you meet a vast number od intelligent and creative people, but you get to peer into websites most people would normally look at once and forget.

Came to this page through StumbleUpon too.
For me Stumble has revitalised my internet use. Apart from the occasion bit of research and regular visiting of my 'usual' site I had pretty much given up surfing but now it has opened my eyes to the creativeness and wierdness that is out there, as well as finding me completely new subjects to be interested in (and research using google) My surfing is revitalised (too much maybe, but that is another matter!)
Erin says 'SU is one of the most valuable programs on my computer.' I would have to agree wholeheartedly with that.

Me Too! Who cares if they're tracking you? And what concern is it if you feel SUers are just stumbling around? We using up your bandwidth? ;-)

i'm addicted to stumbleupon. can't get enough!!!

I second that!!!

I love stumbling. I do it every chance I get. I have met great people. I have new pen pals across the globe. I am really glad a ran into stumblupon. I love learning about the new sites. I would have never imagined all the sites there are out there. I have really learned a lot.

i dont get why its an issue that patterns of use are recorded if they cant be traced back to an individual? does that make sense? i mean, who cares if someone sees your trail of web visiting, if they dont know who u are? like an anonymous survey. weird.

I just stumbled upon this article and must recommend stumbleupon.com, No adware, no trackind, and it is a very relaxing and enjoyable way to explore the internet. I have been stumbling almost a year now and still love it. Try it it's fun.

Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are `It might have been.

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I have been using Stumble Upon for a couple of weeks now, and have not noticed any issues with it. It has saved me from many hours of boredom from slow days at work.

I highly recommend it if you want to kill time.

I am a stumbleupon user as well. It is a great place to get more sites, to see AMAZING art blogs and to meet great people. I have been using it since january of 2003, and have gotten no more spam then before. There is no adware on my computer from stumbleupon. I HAVE met great people, received amazing recommendations with respect to new sites, and have totally wasted many hours 'stumblin' if you HAVEN'T tried it, then do so before shooting it down, if you have tried it, then visit me :)

I am also a SU user who does end-user support for an ISP. I would recommend this toolbar to anyone - and I normally HATE third-party toolbars.

I'm yet another of those satisfied stumblers that arrived at this page using stumble. I'm not sure how the information about my web browsing is used by the company, there may be an ethical dilemna there, but the experience of using StumbleUpon has been great for me.

SU rules, and personally i was suspicious at first, but reading the EULA made me feel better about it, now it's part of my daily routine.

Stumbleupon is a great developing idea with some real good people in it's community! Including SU's creators.

I have been using SU for about a year as well, and I love it. It has NO adware, spyware, scumware, etc. attached to it at all. It's a great community of fellow websurfers sharing links to the best stuff on the net. I personally have no problem with aggregate information being tracked, as in the examples that Geoff used. If you're a person who does have a problem with this, you certainly have the right to not use the toolbar, but you might also want to consider forgoing the web alltogether, since I would say most websites participate in this type of thing. Also good luck with that rock you live under.