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Right on, Clive - as I scientist, I sympathize with your rant. Your resultant generalized hatred is noted and appreciated.
Although I think scurvy results in your teeth falling out (as the lack of vitamin C compromises the crosslinking of collagen in the periodontal ligament), and is not accompanied by foaming at the mouth... :)
(nb: posted late at night, after much wine, at Scientist Summer Camp, aka a Gordon Research Conference in New Hampshire)
Posted by: debcha at July 30, 2004 3:56 AM
Clive, dude. Have they actually started recruiting pundits and "Political Commentators" from the 4th grade sandbox?
"Hey look everybody, John's wearing girly gear! Kerry the Fairy, Kerry the Fairy!"
Honestly, I don't know how you folks put up with your political machine.
Mad Kudos on the phrase chemotherapeutically nauseating though. I had to read it aloud at least three times just to get my head around it and even now it's the most fun my vocabulary has had in weeks! :)
Tnx
Posted by: Kirk Comrie at July 30, 2004 8:51 AM
Absolutely, Clive! I'm not a scientist, but I play one on TV. Okay, not really.
Here's my beef with this. Kerry's political foes can point and snigger all they want -- I don't really give a rat's ass about that. What gets me is how readily the public swallows it all! Of course, I understand it, but it's frustrating nevertheless ...
There are a wealth of popular adages that explain this attitude -- "don't change horses in mid-stream", "dance with the girl that brung ya", et al. Basically, since we all went through a horrific ordeal in the shape of 9/11, and since Bush was our leader at the time, and since he put on a strong, brave face, it's basic social psychology that the majority of people will feel a special connection with him and afford him an unbelievably wide lattitude on everything else. Sad and frustrating, but not unpredictable.
Too bad the hoi polloi are such lemmings!
Posted by: Fishy at July 30, 2004 10:57 AM
Best. Entry. Ever.
And is that the really best the opposition can come up with? "Don't vote for the silly-looking guy!" That's just sad.
Posted by: june at July 30, 2004 12:13 PM
Don't worry about the right-wingers on the desert island - they'll just pray for TVs and electricity and clean drinking water and some god or another will give it to them.
Posted by: marc at July 30, 2004 12:56 PM
Many thanks, all! I still hate everything but am going to get some coffee, which should help.
Debbie, yes, you're correct -- and actually I too knew that scurvy is more about tooth-loosening than foaming. (If anything, you'd get a mouthful of blood.) I was using "foaming" sort of metaphorically, though it came off, understandably, as literal. My only excuse is that I was so pissed off I was typing about 258 words a minute, and probably didn't pause to think carefully about what I was writing, heh.
Posted by: Clive at July 30, 2004 1:00 PM
258 wpm before coffee? There's a job for your in today's government. You a citizen? Believe in Jesus? We've got a role for you (so long you can use backspace and delete, too).
Lemme check with Cheney if we've got a spot for you.
Posted by: George W Bush at July 31, 2004 11:14 AM
Of course you're right, who *wouldn't* want to go check out a space shuttle? I would sure as hell want to, and it's understandable why a presidential candidate would, too.
At the same time, this is just the nature of politics. The Kerry campaign obviously thought this was a cool photo-op but misjudged how it would play. If Democrats can mock Bush for putting on a flight suit and strutting around the deck of aircraft carrier, they have to be willing to take their knocks when their candidate shows up grinning in a powder blue jumpsuit.
You also have to admit that the Kerry campaign handled this very badly by claiming that the photos weren't supposed to be released and trying to fob it off on NASA. They would have done *much* better if they just rolled with it and defused the snide commentary with a bit of self-deprecating humor.
Finally, I don't think the message is that scientists are a bunch of pussies. I mean, Dukakis was roundly mocked for putting on a helmet and riding around in a tank, but that wasn't because everyone thought soldiers were a bunch of wusses. He just looked like a dork.
Posted by: Scott at July 31, 2004 10:49 PM
Posted by: Marty at August 1, 2004 3:53 PM
That's a good point that Kerry knows the way politics is practised -- and ought to have been far more careful. His staff could have prevented the flap, and didn't, so that part of it is their fault. And of course, if one is going to embrace the modern age of constant-visual-metaphor-making campaigning, as Kerry's group clearly does (as all politicians do, these days), they can't very well turn around and complain when pundits and media seize on images and blow 'em up.
That said, there's clearly a difference between the Dukakis incident and the Kerry one. Dukakis was mocked for looking like a wimp because he seemed so clearly out of place in a soldier's role. As you note, the pundits weren't mocking the very role of a soldier. Quite the opposite: They were claiming Dukakis didn't meet up to it.
In this case, the subtext (hell, it's so obvious it's not even subtext; it's just text) is that the very role of a scientist is just like totally beyond gay.
Posted by: Clive at August 1, 2004 6:01 PM
Marty, thanks for that site ... looks very cool.
Posted by: Clive at August 1, 2004 6:16 PM
I think the Republicans are still licking their combs, uh, I mean wounds, over what Michael Moore did to them.
You write:
"Hey, I've got an idea. If political pundits and right-wing assholes find scientists such laughable fools, why don't they all go live on an island somewhere utterly devoid of scientific progress past, say, the 13th century?"
It would only be fitting since it is from around this era that they get their understanding of the world.
Posted by: daniel luke at August 1, 2004 8:58 PM
Oh geeze you girly-men crack me up. Pissing and moaning all the time..hehe.
One day all you LLL's will find a sense of humour and we can all have a laugh together--until then stew in it.
Posted by: Deadmaus at August 2, 2004 11:32 AM
Deadmaus,
Does what you describe as pissing and moaning make you crack up? In other words you are giggling? Do you cover your mouth when you do this? Isn't it true that YOU are the real girly person?
You also write:
One day all you LLL's will find a sense of humour and we can all have a laugh together--until then stew in it.
I think it would be easier to do that if we didn't all fear being rounded up and butchered by the likes of Bush supporters. I personally will go down fighting.
Posted by: daniel luke at August 2, 2004 11:52 PM
Ssh, don't feed the trolls or they'll never go away!
What is an LLL anyway?
Posted by: june at August 3, 2004 12:03 PM
LLL I'm betting that two of the L's are left and liberal. I don't know what the third is, but it doesn't matter.
Posted by: daniel lujke at August 3, 2004 4:24 PM
Posted by: Max at August 21, 2004 5:07 PM
Right on, Clive - as I scientist, I sympathize with your rant. Your resultant generalized hatred is noted and appreciated.
Although I think scurvy results in your teeth falling out (as the lack of vitamin C compromises the crosslinking of collagen in the periodontal ligament), and is not accompanied by foaming at the mouth... :)
(nb: posted late at night, after much wine, at Scientist Summer Camp, aka a Gordon Research Conference in New Hampshire)
Posted by: debcha at July 30, 2004 3:56 AM
Clive, dude. Have they actually started recruiting pundits and "Political Commentators" from the 4th grade sandbox?
"Hey look everybody, John's wearing girly gear! Kerry the Fairy, Kerry the Fairy!"
Honestly, I don't know how you folks put up with your political machine.
Mad Kudos on the phrase chemotherapeutically nauseating though. I had to read it aloud at least three times just to get my head around it and even now it's the most fun my vocabulary has had in weeks! :)
Tnx
Posted by: Kirk Comrie at July 30, 2004 8:51 AM
Absolutely, Clive! I'm not a scientist, but I play one on TV. Okay, not really.
Here's my beef with this. Kerry's political foes can point and snigger all they want -- I don't really give a rat's ass about that. What gets me is how readily the public swallows it all! Of course, I understand it, but it's frustrating nevertheless ...
There are a wealth of popular adages that explain this attitude -- "don't change horses in mid-stream", "dance with the girl that brung ya", et al. Basically, since we all went through a horrific ordeal in the shape of 9/11, and since Bush was our leader at the time, and since he put on a strong, brave face, it's basic social psychology that the majority of people will feel a special connection with him and afford him an unbelievably wide lattitude on everything else. Sad and frustrating, but not unpredictable.
Too bad the hoi polloi are such lemmings!
Posted by: Fishy at July 30, 2004 10:57 AM
Best. Entry. Ever.
And is that the really best the opposition can come up with? "Don't vote for the silly-looking guy!" That's just sad.
Posted by: june at July 30, 2004 12:13 PM
Don't worry about the right-wingers on the desert island - they'll just pray for TVs and electricity and clean drinking water and some god or another will give it to them.
Posted by: marc at July 30, 2004 12:56 PM
Many thanks, all! I still hate everything but am going to get some coffee, which should help.
Debbie, yes, you're correct -- and actually I too knew that scurvy is more about tooth-loosening than foaming. (If anything, you'd get a mouthful of blood.) I was using "foaming" sort of metaphorically, though it came off, understandably, as literal. My only excuse is that I was so pissed off I was typing about 258 words a minute, and probably didn't pause to think carefully about what I was writing, heh.
Posted by: Clive at July 30, 2004 1:00 PM
258 wpm before coffee? There's a job for your in today's government. You a citizen? Believe in Jesus? We've got a role for you (so long you can use backspace and delete, too).
Lemme check with Cheney if we've got a spot for you.
Posted by: George W Bush at July 31, 2004 11:14 AM
Of course you're right, who *wouldn't* want to go check out a space shuttle? I would sure as hell want to, and it's understandable why a presidential candidate would, too.
At the same time, this is just the nature of politics. The Kerry campaign obviously thought this was a cool photo-op but misjudged how it would play. If Democrats can mock Bush for putting on a flight suit and strutting around the deck of aircraft carrier, they have to be willing to take their knocks when their candidate shows up grinning in a powder blue jumpsuit.
You also have to admit that the Kerry campaign handled this very badly by claiming that the photos weren't supposed to be released and trying to fob it off on NASA. They would have done *much* better if they just rolled with it and defused the snide commentary with a bit of self-deprecating humor.
Finally, I don't think the message is that scientists are a bunch of pussies. I mean, Dukakis was roundly mocked for putting on a helmet and riding around in a tank, but that wasn't because everyone thought soldiers were a bunch of wusses. He just looked like a dork.
Posted by: Scott at July 31, 2004 10:49 PM
You nailed it. There is an entire summary site on the ways these yahoos screw up the process.
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/
It is a comprehensive site and worth the read.
Posted by: Marty at August 1, 2004 3:53 PM
That's a good point that Kerry knows the way politics is practised -- and ought to have been far more careful. His staff could have prevented the flap, and didn't, so that part of it is their fault. And of course, if one is going to embrace the modern age of constant-visual-metaphor-making campaigning, as Kerry's group clearly does (as all politicians do, these days), they can't very well turn around and complain when pundits and media seize on images and blow 'em up.
That said, there's clearly a difference between the Dukakis incident and the Kerry one. Dukakis was mocked for looking like a wimp because he seemed so clearly out of place in a soldier's role. As you note, the pundits weren't mocking the very role of a soldier. Quite the opposite: They were claiming Dukakis didn't meet up to it.
In this case, the subtext (hell, it's so obvious it's not even subtext; it's just text) is that the very role of a scientist is just like totally beyond gay.
Posted by: Clive at August 1, 2004 6:01 PM
Marty, thanks for that site ... looks very cool.
Posted by: Clive at August 1, 2004 6:16 PM
I think the Republicans are still licking their combs, uh, I mean wounds, over what Michael Moore did to them.
You write:
"Hey, I've got an idea. If political pundits and right-wing assholes find scientists such laughable fools, why don't they all go live on an island somewhere utterly devoid of scientific progress past, say, the 13th century?"
It would only be fitting since it is from around this era that they get their understanding of the world.
Posted by: daniel luke at August 1, 2004 8:58 PM
Oh geeze you girly-men crack me up. Pissing and moaning all the time..hehe.
One day all you LLL's will find a sense of humour and we can all have a laugh together--until then stew in it.
Posted by: Deadmaus at August 2, 2004 11:32 AM
Deadmaus,
Does what you describe as pissing and moaning make you crack up? In other words you are giggling? Do you cover your mouth when you do this? Isn't it true that YOU are the real girly person?
You also write:
One day all you LLL's will find a sense of humour and we can all have a laugh together--until then stew in it.
I think it would be easier to do that if we didn't all fear being rounded up and butchered by the likes of Bush supporters. I personally will go down fighting.
Posted by: daniel luke at August 2, 2004 11:52 PM
Ssh, don't feed the trolls or they'll never go away!
What is an LLL anyway?
Posted by: june at August 3, 2004 12:03 PM
LLL I'm betting that two of the L's are left and liberal. I don't know what the third is, but it doesn't matter.
Posted by: daniel lujke at August 3, 2004 4:24 PM
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Posted by: Max at August 21, 2004 5:07 PM