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Just curious, does it say anywhere what's the background for some of the represented chains of relationships being portrayed as straight lines, whereas others look more curved like?
Posted by: killingen telletilti at January 29, 2005 8:10 AM
Wow, amazing post. I spent a few minutes squinting at the graph, and something interesting popped out at me. I started looking at "pimp" behavior - which I defined (arbitrarily) as a node connected to at least 5 other nodes (regardless of gender). What I noticed is there are a total of 6 pimps on the graph, 5 of which are female and 1 male. 3 of these females are at the center of their own, completely detached, cluster of males. The single male is the king pimp on the graph, with a total of nine female connections.
I don't know what that means to a sociologist, but it's interesting nonetheless. I think it might be easier to swallow, however, if this data were for a small college, since there's so much angst over teens and sex. I hope Mr. Moody doesn't get too much heat for that.
What I don't understand is why there aren't two unconnected dots, one representing unconnected females and one unconnected males. Has everyone dated someone?
Posted by: Peter O at January 29, 2005 10:46 AM
I disagree with your finding of the virgin/whore dichotomy. As peter noted, the flagrantly promiscuous individuals are evenly distributed between the large and small networks. The little tendrils trailing off the central ring are generally isometric to the smaller graphs pictured, on the ommision of any given link to the ring. Essentially, the only difference between the tendrils and the smaller networks is then the former's inclusion of some interloper, and these give rise to the huge blob. Members of the blob, then, aren't so because of association with similarly profligate individuals, but because of their association with some abstract social network representing the core of it. I'm guessing that it's not the debate club.
My favorite is the 5-connection node to the left of the big network, reinforcing my conclusion that adolescent girls who experiment with bisexuality are are merely bored with traditional outlets of excessive promiscuity.
Posted by: drew hutchison at January 29, 2005 2:12 PM
(Even) less scientific, but no less entertaining, is the study referred to at the end of this post : http://www.aflickeringlight.com/2004/11/i_arrived_home_.html.
Ignore my blathering and head straight for the last couple of paragraphs. Amongst some of the unreliable conclusions are an apparent link between oral sex and high grades....
Posted by: Waterhot at January 29, 2005 7:07 PM
Killingen and Peter, good questions -- I don't know the answer to them.
Drew, let me think about your point; I think you might be right, that I'm reading that chart wrong.
Waterhot, checking that out now ... ahahahahh ....
Posted by: Clive at January 29, 2005 9:14 PM
You might find some of Ron Burt's stuff interesting, if you aren't familiar with it (which you probably are).
My favorite of his work is "Brokerage and Closure: An Introduction to Social Capital":
Here's a link to some pre-pub chapters:
http://gsbwww.uchicago.edu/fac/ronald.burt/research/
Would love to hear your thoughts on his work. I'm trying to work it into my dissertation on Virtual Collaboration and Collaborative Networks.
--Lori
Posted by: Lori at January 29, 2005 10:42 PM
Definitely an interesting graph. I thought it a bit unfortunate they they chose to collapse the smaller networks (1-1, 1-2, 2-1) and just display a number with them. While that does conserve space, I think it would have provided a far more interesting visual overview had each of those smaller groupings been shown.
Posted by: Steven Garrity at January 29, 2005 11:47 PM
Also, allmost nobody (I can only find two examples) are doing it with people from their own sex. Is it because they're not yet out of the closet at that age?
Posted by: killingen telletilti at January 30, 2005 4:47 AM
Dear Clive:
That diagram, and your statement, "This might be useful data in understanding how sexually-transmitted diseases spread in high schools," reminded me of the 1999 PBS/Frontline documentary, *The Lost Children of Rockdale County.*
That film explored "how a 1996 syphilis outbreak in a well-off Atlanta suburb affected over 200 teenagers."
You can read about it here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/
As well, the doc features an image, created by the local health department, to show the spread of the disease in this instance, picturing it as a network of transmission lines and nodes; see:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/outbreak/matrix.html
Produce Justice,
Harry Allen
Posted by: Harry Allen at January 30, 2005 5:54 AM
I find the lack of same-sex reporting interesting. I wonder if the students involved in same-sex play don't consider their activity fitting into Moody's categories: essentially (i) dating w/ intercourse, (ii) intercourse w/o dating.
(And to echo Harry's comment, that Frontline documentary is great.)
Posted by: beaker at January 30, 2005 12:53 PM
Actually, Drew, if you look at around 8 o'clock on the big blob, you'll notice that the only reported male same-sex connection is two males who each also had three female partners. So I don't know if you can draw any conclusions about same-sex exploration being an adjunct to promiscuity in adolescent girls. Particularly since the study parameters (in that a connection represents either a romantic relationship or intercourse) are likely to result in the underreporting of same-sex relationships in general and female-female relationships in particular.
Killingen, I think the curved lines are only a result of having to connect individuals.
Peter, if you look at the article, it says they interviewed 832 of about 1000 students, 573 of which (about 70%) were in romantic or sexual relationships and are therefore mapped. So, yes, there should be 259 single dots.
debcha
(who is supposed to be working on a grant application, and is instead procrastinating massively)
Posted by: debcha at January 30, 2005 1:58 PM
"This one time... at band camp."
At the end of a summer as a camp counselor two enterprising fellow counselor put their heads together after the campers left and came up with a map of every counselor "hook-up" that had occurred. There were different colored lines for various stages of interaction (make-out, sex, relationship) and even lines indicating an unrealized desire on one person's part to get it on with someone else.
It was an amazing thing to see, though it did piss a fair number of people off.
As I recall we had a bunch of individual strings, and then two largish clumps that were slightly interconnected. One thing that was pretty clear from the map was that the 'clumps' were formed through the actions of a handful of people. Most everyone had only one or two connections (or none, he said with a mournful tone of regret) but it was these few people that tied everyone else together.
Posted by: Will at January 30, 2005 7:47 PM
Ya know, in all the summer camps and schools I attended with less than five thousand students, there was this central "popular group" then there were all the other groups of people. The big ring could very well be the sexual interaction of the popular group. This is not to say that the popular group had no divisions, only that there was more interaction between divisions in the popular group than there was between the other divisions in the school/camp/whatever.
Unless numerous studies were done that showed more or less the same type of clumping, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions. Think how extraordinarily different the map would look if one of the smaller clumps connected two dots on opposite sides of the larger clump’s circle, and think about how easily that might happen.
Posted by: J. Wallace at January 30, 2005 8:03 PM
In my high school there was a website that tracked relationships, with each person as a page with links to other people in chronological order. It was taken down after one person denied being in a gay relationship and bitched out the website creator on her answering machine. Bitched out rather flamingly, in fact, but I digress.
Posted by: Jeff Liu at January 31, 2005 10:31 AM
Arg .... I posted a whole big response to the comments here, but it appears to have been deleted when I ran MT-Blacklist to clean out recent instances of comment spam. How ironic is that?
Great stuff here all around, though.
Lori, I'm going to go look at that paper now ... thanks for the link!
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Just curious, does it say anywhere what's the background for some of the represented chains of relationships being portrayed as straight lines, whereas others look more curved like?
Posted by: killingen telletilti at January 29, 2005 8:10 AM
Wow, amazing post. I spent a few minutes squinting at the graph, and something interesting popped out at me. I started looking at "pimp" behavior - which I defined (arbitrarily) as a node connected to at least 5 other nodes (regardless of gender). What I noticed is there are a total of 6 pimps on the graph, 5 of which are female and 1 male. 3 of these females are at the center of their own, completely detached, cluster of males. The single male is the king pimp on the graph, with a total of nine female connections.
I don't know what that means to a sociologist, but it's interesting nonetheless. I think it might be easier to swallow, however, if this data were for a small college, since there's so much angst over teens and sex. I hope Mr. Moody doesn't get too much heat for that.
What I don't understand is why there aren't two unconnected dots, one representing unconnected females and one unconnected males. Has everyone dated someone?
Posted by: Peter O at January 29, 2005 10:46 AM
I disagree with your finding of the virgin/whore dichotomy. As peter noted, the flagrantly promiscuous individuals are evenly distributed between the large and small networks. The little tendrils trailing off the central ring are generally isometric to the smaller graphs pictured, on the ommision of any given link to the ring. Essentially, the only difference between the tendrils and the smaller networks is then the former's inclusion of some interloper, and these give rise to the huge blob. Members of the blob, then, aren't so because of association with similarly profligate individuals, but because of their association with some abstract social network representing the core of it. I'm guessing that it's not the debate club.
My favorite is the 5-connection node to the left of the big network, reinforcing my conclusion that adolescent girls who experiment with bisexuality are are merely bored with traditional outlets of excessive promiscuity.
Posted by: drew hutchison at January 29, 2005 2:12 PM
(Even) less scientific, but no less entertaining, is the study referred to at the end of this post : http://www.aflickeringlight.com/2004/11/i_arrived_home_.html.
Ignore my blathering and head straight for the last couple of paragraphs. Amongst some of the unreliable conclusions are an apparent link between oral sex and high grades....
Posted by: Waterhot at January 29, 2005 7:07 PM
Killingen and Peter, good questions -- I don't know the answer to them.
Drew, let me think about your point; I think you might be right, that I'm reading that chart wrong.
Waterhot, checking that out now ... ahahahahh ....
Posted by: Clive at January 29, 2005 9:14 PM
You might find some of Ron Burt's stuff interesting, if you aren't familiar with it (which you probably are).
My favorite of his work is "Brokerage and Closure: An Introduction to Social Capital":
Here's a link to some pre-pub chapters:
http://gsbwww.uchicago.edu/fac/ronald.burt/research/
Would love to hear your thoughts on his work. I'm trying to work it into my dissertation on Virtual Collaboration and Collaborative Networks.
--Lori
Posted by: Lori at January 29, 2005 10:42 PM
Definitely an interesting graph. I thought it a bit unfortunate they they chose to collapse the smaller networks (1-1, 1-2, 2-1) and just display a number with them. While that does conserve space, I think it would have provided a far more interesting visual overview had each of those smaller groupings been shown.
Posted by: Steven Garrity at January 29, 2005 11:47 PM
Also, allmost nobody (I can only find two examples) are doing it with people from their own sex. Is it because they're not yet out of the closet at that age?
Posted by: killingen telletilti at January 30, 2005 4:47 AM
Dear Clive:
That diagram, and your statement, "This might be useful data in understanding how sexually-transmitted diseases spread in high schools," reminded me of the 1999 PBS/Frontline documentary, *The Lost Children of Rockdale County.*
That film explored "how a 1996 syphilis outbreak in a well-off Atlanta suburb affected over 200 teenagers."
You can read about it here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/
As well, the doc features an image, created by the local health department, to show the spread of the disease in this instance, picturing it as a network of transmission lines and nodes; see:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/outbreak/matrix.html
Produce Justice,
Harry Allen
Posted by: Harry Allen at January 30, 2005 5:54 AM
I find the lack of same-sex reporting interesting. I wonder if the students involved in same-sex play don't consider their activity fitting into Moody's categories: essentially (i) dating w/ intercourse, (ii) intercourse w/o dating.
(And to echo Harry's comment, that Frontline documentary is great.)
Posted by: beaker at January 30, 2005 12:53 PM
Actually, Drew, if you look at around 8 o'clock on the big blob, you'll notice that the only reported male same-sex connection is two males who each also had three female partners. So I don't know if you can draw any conclusions about same-sex exploration being an adjunct to promiscuity in adolescent girls. Particularly since the study parameters (in that a connection represents either a romantic relationship or intercourse) are likely to result in the underreporting of same-sex relationships in general and female-female relationships in particular.
Killingen, I think the curved lines are only a result of having to connect individuals.
Peter, if you look at the article, it says they interviewed 832 of about 1000 students, 573 of which (about 70%) were in romantic or sexual relationships and are therefore mapped. So, yes, there should be 259 single dots.
debcha
(who is supposed to be working on a grant application, and is instead procrastinating massively)
Posted by: debcha at January 30, 2005 1:58 PM
"This one time... at band camp."
At the end of a summer as a camp counselor two enterprising fellow counselor put their heads together after the campers left and came up with a map of every counselor "hook-up" that had occurred. There were different colored lines for various stages of interaction (make-out, sex, relationship) and even lines indicating an unrealized desire on one person's part to get it on with someone else.
It was an amazing thing to see, though it did piss a fair number of people off.
As I recall we had a bunch of individual strings, and then two largish clumps that were slightly interconnected. One thing that was pretty clear from the map was that the 'clumps' were formed through the actions of a handful of people. Most everyone had only one or two connections (or none, he said with a mournful tone of regret) but it was these few people that tied everyone else together.
Posted by: Will at January 30, 2005 7:47 PM
Ya know, in all the summer camps and schools I attended with less than five thousand students, there was this central "popular group" then there were all the other groups of people. The big ring could very well be the sexual interaction of the popular group. This is not to say that the popular group had no divisions, only that there was more interaction between divisions in the popular group than there was between the other divisions in the school/camp/whatever.
Unless numerous studies were done that showed more or less the same type of clumping, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions. Think how extraordinarily different the map would look if one of the smaller clumps connected two dots on opposite sides of the larger clump’s circle, and think about how easily that might happen.
Posted by: J. Wallace at January 30, 2005 8:03 PM
In my high school there was a website that tracked relationships, with each person as a page with links to other people in chronological order. It was taken down after one person denied being in a gay relationship and bitched out the website creator on her answering machine. Bitched out rather flamingly, in fact, but I digress.
Posted by: Jeff Liu at January 31, 2005 10:31 AM
Arg .... I posted a whole big response to the comments here, but it appears to have been deleted when I ran MT-Blacklist to clean out recent instances of comment spam. How ironic is that?
Great stuff here all around, though.
Lori, I'm going to go look at that paper now ... thanks for the link!
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